Time to END or suspend (CHAMP) class

  I think I may possess the last trophy and jacket that says champ/champ  /It is clear for years we are hanging on to a losing idea. I think WOTA from the beginning has said if we have 3 or more riders we can have a class= fringe classes like enduro,youth or woman that are not normally large enough to seperate.I dont advocate dropping youth or woman lines but it makes no sense to have trialsmasters lay out  a course for anyone above expert . Chances are very good you will not see 3 Champ riders at any of the upcoming events ;and if they do show they would normally prefer to freeride .go rogue , renegade ,show off and not pay . All other motor sports you are not allowed on course without signing up,should we be different? Maybe that is where Exhibtion line comes in  I think Trials inc has an X line for Ryan Young to show his talents on, we could charge $15 and never print a trophy for them ,other ideas are to basically have the sections be just a bit harder than Expert and  have Alain, .Philbrick and I ride it but again we are not likely to be at the same event at the same time at a large amount of remaining rides. Doing away with Champ ,if it is voted on then I feel getting rid or the 2 tone orange/black markers is wise  =EXpert becomes Red . Thoughts?

Where is Condron?

I'm not for making the Expert line harder to suit the upper class riders when they show up.  They can ride Expert and just score fewer points.

 Rick has said he has gone renegade  doesnt want to be AMA member. He is about the only one who rode any events last year so there arent too many riders to ask about it. I am looking to dig up a bit of a vintage style bike for when I ride the EX line it will even things out  .a 1995 Fantic section at the best  and maybe Fantic 240 or Yamaha mono 350  . I will be at less than 1/2 the events most likely.

I would  think that anyone that shows up to ride the sections should be paying just like every one else!!!! even if they dont want a trophy or not, I wouldnt think it would be fair to the rest of the people that had to pay!  and I thought that, thats what you called a Exhibtion rider, (someone who just showed up to ride and have fun in the sections) but he/or she still had to pay for the day of fun just like all of us and was not looking for a trophy from the event at the end of the day??  I am asking on this  because I am not totaly clear on this! so help me out if I am wrong.
 I am leaving champ stuff to you guys, and what ever works the best is good with me! we can drop the ornage and black and use the red and white for expert, but we need to send out a notice to everyone stating this change when we do change it.

Yes Jim, that is the definition of the exibition rider.  We did discuss at the last meeting that if you want to ride the course, you still need to pay the fee.  We all need to help pay for the insurance and ribbons and arrows needed for the setup.  And yes, exibition riders will not be eligible for trophy (or points).  There was some confusion on this on Sunday.  Lastly, like we agreed on in the last meeting, if the event is already started and you show up late, you may still ride, but will need to pay the fee and ride exibition (no trophy or points awarded).  At the meeting we felt that it was unfair for those that show up on time and are registered well in advance of the riders meeting, and then have to wait for someone that drives into the pits just as we are heading out to the sections. 

    I see  with Black creek falls  paying UMTA points that event will need a champ line  as Brad and 1 other dude rode it last yr. so may again  in 2012 ,That would mean  the top line may come and go on  an as needed  basis?  I suppose the idea of  a Champ - Ex rider earning the right to ride the last loop after other riders are through by mentoring  a different random group on 1st laps is silly?  I know it has happened plenty where late guys still get in and ride sections ,I know if I were hotly contesting a class and someone non entered tore up or significantly changed the way a course rides I would have grounds for a protest.  Also potentially if a Champ/Exhibition rider is sure he will attend an event I guess he could plead w/trialsmaster to leave some bigger hits inside the tapes =they wouldnt even really need colored plates  just gates that push others elsewhere.  So if we drop the need for trialsmasters to set a line above the EXPert at most events I think the sections would be less confusing and take less time to build and remove.   This is really more of a susppension of current Champ class until the little Littlefields arent so little. Again going back to what Trials inc does .they also do an online preentry which gives indication if any top class riders are showing up,not sure how that could be implemented  ,and then  to decide if the cost is discounted for preentry or if refunds are given for missing event. As for adding a super sport  I dont see breaking up  any of our classes  until we get a consistent group of 10 or more , then  that class  should ride  a mix of Advanced and Expert sections  NOT have  a seperate line within each.

   Maybe for a while trialsmasters  might just set  around 1/2 the sections with  a go big option  ,throw an X  near it  or leave it unmarked . Some sort of compromise until we can figure out who may be showing up when.

Noel,
When Ben and I went to sign up, the sign up lady said there were no champs, that pat and Phil were just riding around.  We had no problem paying to ride.  It just wasn't brought up...  So I used my sign up money and supported your sons by buying t shirts!  I do agree if you want to play our ride exhibition you should have to pay...  As far as throwing the champ line out is tough....if you make the sections like you did, real champ sections, most of the champs can't ride them....I loved them.  if you get rid of the champ line it isn't fair to the experts if your kids or me or Wellenstein ride it.  With a tight schedule I can't commit to  event till that week our so.  I have set up Assn event every year (in umta) and I don't think it is that much more work to put the champ line in, just throw us up some nasty crap! Just my two cents.,

As for trophies in U.M.T.A. we give trophies to the lowerlevel classes. 
Everyone else just gets an end of the year award.
I don't think any champs care too much about trophies.... at least i don't.

   Sure NOW Brad finds  the iFORUMational spot===if you were 10 minutes earlier we would have rocked the ch line ,but if I believed in fate  it probably saved me from breaking something,like a toe/fenfder/or rock.  I know it looks like I directed  a fair amount of post ire towards you but I am as disappointed with how easy my boys bow out of riding. Besides them not liking to pay to ride our own property,I know Pat saw little in the way of challenge and Phil of course had a late blonde distraction ,so things fell apart on the Champ front,oh well .  Last fall  I rode the BRF sections on Sunday without being signed up ,I had felt like just watching the expert battles and then Dave R  kind of invited me to ride some. I think on occasion this has happened with other guys to. often when a champ class is 1 or 2 guys it ends up being a joke and you end up more or less screwing around and  feel like a waste to sign up . I dont have a good answer ,its just tough to know what to do when turnout is so iffy.  I was personally quite glad you rode the stuff I spent all win ter to build .I saw tire tracks here and there  but  nowhere was there  a problem with holes dug or rotten logs rolled around that made other lines change any.  I maybe should have pulled out of the expert group and tried to get you signed in, I know the staff is trying hard to stick to some new rules  making things a bit less lax so didnt want to press the issue.  Anyway Im glad you got  a taste of the place  and someday maybe we can ride together and I can show you some other areas also.  And yeah I am not interested in getting any more generic stand up trophies , I wish I would have had time to make  some sort of 1 off piece  or at least specified mugs or something. 

At last fall's meeting we discussed changing the trophies, but ended up tabling the discussion for a spring meeting.  Since Wauzeka is a two day event, I suggest we have a club meeting on saturday evening right after we finish riding.

not to complain about the past, thats behind us, but I would think it would be important to sign up if you are riding the sections at a sanctioned event!! this is to cover you as well as us! and it is only fair to the rest that signed up for the event and paid for it! my main concern would be the Insureance problems here, in the case of someone getting hurt and needing medical attention with out having signed up for the event leaves us in a very large bind!!!! that I would think we would all consider common sence! PLEASE EVERYONE SIGN UP AND PAY FOR THE EVENT IF YOUR GOING TO BE THERE RIDING.  if you let it slide and someone gets hurt, it could end alot for all of us and change the rules to the game for everyone! thanks

Picking and choosing?  Consistancy?  Why keep making up all these rules?  Just live by the rules that are in place.  AMA & NATC have sufficient rules to cover everything at events.  It is like a municipality passing an ordinace that says you have to obey a speed limit????The AMA  does allow some leeway for local events as regional things can vary known as supplemental rules.

AMA does not allow anyone on the loop on a bike/ATV or anything else motorized unless riding (signed up) or staff (with a purpose).  May be a bit harsh at the local small event and everyone seems to allow it within reason...but essential all sign a release form.  If you are going to prohibit riding without signing up, it must apply to all.  That means kids, friends, relatives on anything with a motor.  Is that what you want?

Do we need to make a rule that says you can't break a rule?  When you start to make rules to obey rules you end up with a convoluted mess. 

Let's get back to our mission.  WOTA events are for riding enjoyment and friendly...maybe :-)...competition.  We are amatuers attending events in our our spare time.  We need to be a bit tolerant of the fact that not everyone is able to do everything exactly the way we want them to.  Minor infractions now and then are not going to hurt the cause.  If it is a consistant thing, we need to encourage change.  If that don't work, then enforce the existing rules.

Lastly, and I think most important, there is a powerful need to look at the cause of the problem and attempt to corrrect it.  If you don't eliminate the cause of a problem, changing the rules won't fix it.  WOTA has too many WOTA specific rules...and every event there seems to be more.  I have my flame suit on!!! 

Steve...... Well  pu. You are still ugly though