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so far this is it!  we will have to find a date for silver mound if it all works out, I will leave that up to SteveK. But I am all for it. I talked to steve today and he is still working out the kinks, it is not in stone yet! but he does want to know how many would like to ride there.... I would think all of us!!!!!!!!!! SHAAAAA. LOL!  steve said that it would be more likely that silver mound would be in july if they could do it, so I think early july ?
   not sure about Polo yet.
April 15 Mauston
May 5 & 6 Wauzeka
June 10 Black River Falls
July 21&22 Baraboo
 Aug 4 & 5 Dickeyville/Platteville
Sept 8 & 9 Mauston
Sept 29 & 30 Black River Falls **    (double points day to be decided yet)

  Double points just means  you only have to ride 1  day ,as long as you didnt suck then  you can rest the next day or if the idea is to get better turn outs than give dp t s  at every event

dont recall dble points  at everyevent???? is this new?

 My basic objection to double points is that  WOTA for  a long time tried to mirror NATC  which tok cues from WTC  and as long as I have ridden national events there was never  a double points day  .  I know BMX has done even triple points paying weekends  but also jacked the crap out of entry fees.  A better lure to get people to attend the yr end meeting  is  Door Prizes. If the double points idea lives on it should at least be limited to ONE event and no more Imho

well I am not sure about what everyone else thinks ( and everyone is welcome to coment on this too) BUt I have never tried to mirror any national event and dont know of anyone sinse I have joined wota that has tried to do anything like them. I know others wanted to try to keep the points system the same just to make it simple to figure between ILL. and WI. and Minn. I think it would easyer to keep everything the same between all the surounding states that ride trials, we are not trying to win nationals here, we are just trials loving people doing what we like to do! no big shows here, no big fees here, no national coverage, just us who love the sport doing what we love. I have never seen double points used at more than one event weekend, and it was only to help with the turn out I was told. no big sceem to it. I used double points at the end of the year to ensure that the turn out would be better for the guys in brf for the good work they all did there, nothing else, just to make a good weekend out of it, no one lined there pockets with any extra money, no one got charged any extra, and the only reason I had a year end meeting there was I figured that most everyone would be there at this event and would come to it! and how many showed up??? no one will come to a meeting no matter what you do unless they want too! and if you have to pay them to come then your wasting your time and money and effort! and that my friend is the truth! sad to say but that is life!
I have never seen any big shows or any big fees in wota as long as I have been a member, only show was at jims at the end of the year and it was just a bunch of good people haveing a good time at the end of a day at the last ride of the year! just a good time with good friends doing what we like best! Double points here have just been used to improve and event in one way or another and that is it as far as I have seen no hidden intent at all.
 from what I have seen in wota it is about 8 to 10 people doing all the work and making most all the dessions and that is the most of it as the president of wota I felt double points was a good idea at the time and did it , and I may again depending on the event, I should have some say as long as I am the pres! LOL!!! I dont want any big shows or fees just want to have fun and ride!!!!!  oh yeh we are not bmx so they dont matter to me.

Thank u to all that worked at WOTA operations in 2011. 
Setting up events or behind the scenes, a lot of work goes into the completion of a WOTA season.

Not critiquing anyone, but merely expressing an opinion.  Consistency is the key to success.  In any venture, not just trials.  Not to say things can't change, but any chnages in the fundamentals must have solid reason and continuity.

IMHO, priority one is the rules.  Opinion....follow NATC rules with supplemental rules used only to adapt to idiosyncrasies of an area.  Any changes in the basic concept of rules should be taken very seriously, especially scoring.  Reason?  Anyone coming to ur event understands the basic scoring.

Consistent start times.  It is nice to know when events are going to start and have confidence that they will start on time.  Further, a nice touch is to shoot for approximate finish times.  Easier said than done, but it is nice to go to events that you know will start on time and have a "trophies no later than" target time.  Particularly important for those with long travel times.

Probably the most challenging is consistency in section difficulty.  IMHO, difficulty should be class driven and not based on the riders in a class (with the possible exception of Champ).  If sections are too easy or too hard in your class, one might consider if they are in the right class. And always remember, few people quit because sections are too easy.  Many have quit over the years because sections are too hard.  Considering the variety of people setting up the events and their varying opinion on what is difficult, this is a monumental task.  A never ending story  :-\

It should now be obvious that I disagree with the double points thing.  Other than the inconsistency, IMHO, it really only matters to the few that are in the hunt for class position...and they will likely be there anyway.  For people like me, and many others that are not really into the points thing (for various reasons), it makes no difference.  Secondly, considering the objective to get more people to these events, maybe we need to evaluate the reasons for less than desirable attendance and adjust accordingly.  If there is an underlying reason for poor attendance at a particular event, double points won't correct that.  3rdly...it is inequitable.  It allows riders to complete two events in one thereby putting them in a position to skip an event put on by someone else.

In conclusion to this aimless rambling, please don't construe this as an indication I have problems with WOTA, because I don't.  I am thankful to those that put on events and attend what is fun, within reasonable travel time and fits into my schedule.  And that won't change.  This is merely an offering of an opinion.  Just think how much better this world would be if everyone would just listen to me  :D
 

Hi all,
Hope everyone is set for a merry Christmas!.  I also still have Trials on my mind.  (Just took Jan's bike to my basement woodwork shop for maintenance, then found a broke spoke).  Jim, Noel and Steve all make good points (no pun intended). Trials, like the rest of life ends up with good and bad components. Most of us try to maximize the good and minimize the bad.  We make our decisions based on pleasing the most, realizing we will not please all.  I know section consistency is one issue, but even I have trouble being consistent in the ones I set up from event to event. I hope I'm getting better.  Practice and experience in set up is just as important as in riding, and some of us doing the setup have only been in the sport a few years.  We will try to keep making WOTA better so hope everyone will keep giving their feedback.  Some we will be able to do, and some we won't.  I thank Jim for doing an extreeme amount of the work the past 2 years, and because of that will support him in the decisions he has to make.  And I, like Noel and Steve, will also give him my opinions and reasons to help him make those decisions. I encourage all to politely express their opinions and to help with events whenever they can.  I look forward to next season to once again be able to spend time with all my trials friends (watching the Trials Training Center web, they have set the Trials Training Days for March 31, April 1 and say registration will open in December).
Happy Holidays

If the double points are still up in the air for 2012, I think a vote would be the most fair way to decide it.

I think Steve has a very valid point here:
"Secondly, considering the objective to get more people to these events, maybe we need to evaluate the reasons for less than desirable attendance and adjust accordingly.  If there is an underlying reason for poor attendance at a particular event, double points won't correct that."

And yes, hope you all enjoy the Holidays!

I like what Kevin said!!! ::) :o ;D and happy Holidays.!!

From reading these responses above,  it appears that WOTA members are concerned with how this type of decision is being made.

Is that part of the issue here?

In the past, if a decision was needed to be made in the Club that affected the members of WOTA, one of the officers would run the idea past all of the officers of WOTA before a decision was arrived at. The officers would then discuss the issue.  The officers would discuss whether or not the issue would require a vote from the membership.  If it did not require a vote from the membership, the officers would work toward reaching a consensus. If they all agreed on the plan of action, then the change would be implemented.

When the officers of WOTA conducted business in this way, the decisions were made in a reasoned manner, the decisions had the support of at least the officers, and there was some basis of support to work from in the event that the decision needed to be tweaked at a later date.

Yep Dave, that is pretty much how we have been doing it. It's hard to get all the officers together since we all live so far away from each other.  Jim has tried to have meetings with little success, so we use this forum, email, text notes, and sometimes even call on the phone to discuss.

I am so greatful for all the guys that have helped out with keeping things going! I just wish all the rest could be more involved too, I wish they could come and see what else there is to trials! There are so many of you that just dont understand what setting up is all about, it's not all work! you can learn so much more about riding trials, looking at different lines and possibilities that you can use for a section and different lines you can take for just one class! It is so neat to me to just look for a section to use! because there are so many ways to make one.  I think we are so blessed to have the land at the mountain road site that has so many different things to choose from. (my personal thanks to Jim and judy for all their kindness and help to make this a great place for all of us to ride!) I  just love to go there and ride different stuff and see what would make a good section. you would be amased to see all of what is there that we can use yet for sections (New ones!) I say if you havent set up a section or an event then you should take the time to do it and see what your missing! I would be glad to do the clean up work and let any new commer, beginner or anyone that has not tried to set up a section yet come and put the arrows in it ! just that is the most fun, looking at all the lines you can take to make a section! it is a great thing to do to help you ride a section, to help you learn to get thought a section easyer, seeing the stuff you can avoid to make it easyer for you. I find it to be new every year, trying to find good lines, I learn something new every year from kevin and ralph who are both very good at this and all that help me teach me so much! (I am greatful to all of them for that!) but if you want to improve your skills come and set up a section or more, even find what you would think would make a good section then put a ribbon around it  and start making some lines in it ! you will be surprized to find the things you will learn about it all and the fun that you can have doing it!
Thank you to all the hard working guys that have been there doing what it takes to get it all done! you guys are the best and I am greatful to you one and all and thank you for being my friends too! God Bless and keep you safe and healthy durring the holidays! Jim V. President of WOTA

 I see NITRO has an early April  Elmwood event on the 15 th  /also one on the 29 th   dont know if we should consider the 8 th or 22 nd  since plenty of  the riders I have hosted seem to be Nitro types ?????????  For me  the 15th was the perfect date  dont suppose Ralph wants to slide the 1 st round 1 wk sooner??

Noel,
   Sorry to have taken so long to respond.....been away from internet a few days......we saw at our Dist 17 meeting that Byron was in conflict with Mauston......we could not move Byron to the 22nd because there was a Loreta Young MX qualifier that weekend. So we switched Elmwood to the 15 .....that puts Maustin and Elmwood head to head........ they are a 4 hour drive min. apart Hoping as not to draw to many riders from each other.
     Now to answer your question.......I would think if you movved your event to the 8th or the 22nd it wouldbe the most advantages to both clubs If you had it on Sat. the 14th it would put me back in the position of choosing between the two events.
    If you look further into the schedules , anew club in Dist.1 is holding an event on June 10th, same weekend as BRF......I tried to have them reconsider also.......but they declinded .....these two are also about 4 hr apart........Ralph

I guess last year we moved it to that 10th vs 17 thhh   and it  actually was  a better weekend for riding I think  ,so except for those who are setting up you r  event  may miss mine  I am thinking  the 8th.  Not sure how that works fro  Kevin Huber as he  does reliosh being My Main Man  at Mauston Mostly.

The 8th would work for me.  I'll be at the Trials Training Center on March 31/April 1, and think I'll have that whole week off, so could show up Wednesday or Thursday for a good 4 full days of work before the 8th.  I can't get off the week of April 9 thru 13, so if it stays on the 15th, I would be there to work on the same days as if it's on the 8th.

   Right now  the event willl be either 1/8 or 1/15     I am thinking it  will depend most on which day my boys will be able to ride it  as Pat has skipped out  too many times  with excuses like not having  a bike and so forth.  He seems to be more motivated to try my new stuff and  the ground being more settled  has improved the riding many fold. 

Any more thought on if the Mauston event is April 8 or 15? My conflict the week before the 15th just moved to the week after the 15th, so 8 or 15 works, just want to nail down which days off I need those 2 weeks to help Noel.

so,,, what about the 22nd of april for mauston????  and the wazeka date has changed to the 19+20th so far that might stick.

April 22 would work for me.  If we can avoid April 15 we wouldn't overlap with NITRO.  Is that MAY 19 and 20 for Wauzeka? If so, that also works out OK.

yes, wauzeka is may 19+20. I called mark and he said it would work better because it gets to muddy back there other wise and it is almost impossible to get in and out of the woods with cars and campers.

Hi, are there any more changes to the schedule? I have a goofy work schedule and was able to take vacation and get some trades to make all the events this year. My schedule is being kind to me that both Mausten and now the Wauzeka work for me but just checking if there are others. I can usually get a trade but sometimes I need some time. Now I have a whole weekend in May off that I had made trades for...woooo! Might have to take the big bikes out on the trails ;)

   The 22 nd is normal  planting time for corn so I think the 8th is best.  Right now the South side is rideable  if anyone  has time  to  ride ,   Pat   may be doing   a day or so  this coming week  ,willll post if we decide  which day   .

The 8th would be great.  Would get there the Tue or Wed before, should be enough time to get a 1 day event in good shape, even better if you get that new land we get a start on clearing it out.

Wow Just read about Wauzeka.......NITRO has moved our MAY 13th Pearl City  event to the 20th too!!!!! ( I didn't realize that the 13th was Mothers Day ???)
                                                                       :-[ Ralph